Protector 1.2.7

Hi Leo,

What about the UCI Engine Protector 1.2.7 ?

Made I a mistake to announce this new Engine ?

Regards,
Patrick

Patrick Buchmann wrote:Hi Leo,

What about the UCI Engine Protector 1.2.7 ?

Made I a mistake to announce this new Engine ?

Regards,
Patrick

Hi Patrick,

I did not announce it because it seems nothing else then another TogaII, this time "bitboard based" with "many small" changed code!?
I am a bit tired of all this "new engines" which look more at a renamed open source engines with nearly no new code or new idea, they can also name it "Fruit 2.1/TogaII/Protector127" or something like that...
This nonsens (IMHO) is start with "Toga" and keeps going on....
Well, I just read peple are still interrested in cyclone 4, they really ask to be cheated, but thats a human he "must have"

But this is my opinion ofcourse, you and anyone else can do, or think about it their way

Best wishes,
Leo

Hi Leo,

from this http://www.computerchess.info/tdbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=394
it seems a new engine.

Ciao
Salvo

Hello all,

my name is Raimund Heid and I am the author of Protector. Protector is new to you and I'd like to clarify its relation to Toga/Fruit in order to give you a solid base of information for obvious questions like the one issued by K. Inuen.

When I claimed 'Protector is kinda bitboard-based Toga' I wanted to point out that Protector is based on many ideas implemented in Toga/Fruit. However, you have to keep in mind that Protector was written from scratch (about six years ago) as a bitboard-based program of its own. As a consequence it has a data structure that differs fundamentally from Toga's data structure. And of course Protector's algorithms refer to this data structure. For this reason it doesn't make sense to copy any *code* from Protector to Toga or vice versa.

This could seem to be a problem, but I think it isn't. Experience tells that chess programming is not a matter of coding but a matter of having clever ideas (or copying them ). For this reason in most cases it should't be a big effort to carry successful ideas from one program to the other.

(But, agreed, this still doesn't answer the question why I've written Protector instead of simply enhancing the Toga code. I don't think that this is a topic for the current discussion thread and for this reason I want to give only a short answer here. In fact I saw (and see) only one benefit in the option to start with the Toga code: saving a lot of time. On the other hand I saw a lot of benefits in a new program written from scratch, the most prominent being: 1) When I started with Protector back in 2003 there was no Toga or Fruit around 2) Bitboards. I like Bitboards and I think a modern chess program should be bitboard-based in order to benefit from 64 bit architectures as much as possible. 3) Learning curve. I felt that it's only possible to write a good chess program if you fully understand what's going on. One easy way to get this experience is writing a program from scratch

Coming back to the original question from K. Inuen: I guees it would take about half a day for a decent programmer with profound knowledge of the Toga data structures to attach the tablebase code. I assume the reason why this didn't happen until now is simply the copyright from Eugene Nalimov and Andrew Kadatch, which would't allow the Toga sources to be released any further under GNU licence.

Any questions left? Feel free to ask.

Anyway: Have fun with Protector

Raimund Heid

Thanks for the link Salvo!

I asked some people but they say "its nearly ALL Toga", which sounds like the readme.txt part:
"In short it's kinda Bitboard-based TogaII with many small improvements."

Why should he say that Protector is a original engines of his own?

Besides he thanks:
"Andrew Kadatch, Eugene Nalimov (tablebases)" but he has no permission to use them!
He advises to use egtb code from Crafty, to me that looks illegal to?

And: "Gerd Isenberg (magic bitboards)", I did not know Gerd publiced them, maybe he means the "Magic Bitboards" from Pradu? (without permission?)

Maybe I am wrong but it stinks a bit....

Best wishes,
Leo

Leo Dijksman wrote:

Hi Patrick,

I did not announce it because it seems nothing else then another TogaII, this time "bitboard based" with "many small" changed code!?
I am a bit tired of all this "new engines" which look more at a renamed open source engines with nearly no new code or new idea, they can also name it "Fruit 2.1/TogaII/Protector127" or something like that...
This nonsens (IMHO) is start with "Toga" and keeps going on....
Well, I just read peple are still interrested in cyclone 4, they really ask to be cheated, but thats a human he "must have"

But this is my opinion ofcourse, you and anyone else can do, or think about it their way

Best wishes,
Leo

Hi Leo,

Thanks for the answer.

I read the readme.txt to fast. Olivier give me the advice in my forum: another Fruit derivate.
It's normal, there is the season for the fruits

There is very difficult now. On each new engine there is a suspicion.

Regards,
Patrick

Hi Leo,
thanks for the reply, now I see ...

Ciao
Salvo