"The Campaign to get Leo a New Computer", donations list ...

Hello all,

Below follows the list of donateurs since this link message from Dann Corbit.

Thomas McBurney
Dann Corbit
Olivier Deville
Alexander Schmidt
Harald JOHNSEN
Andrés Valverde
Bruno LUCAS
Roger Brown
Ferdinand Mosca
Hinrich Buhr
Pradyumna Kannan
Grant Osborne
Stefan Sattler
Fonzy Bluemers
Aart Bik
Stephan Vermeire
Jean-Philippe Karr
Robert Pope
Salvador Pallares
Will Singleton
Edmonton Tek
Paulo Soares
Todd Martin
François Karr
Ian Morris
László Gáspár
Richard Allbert
Stefano Malloggi
CSVN
Eric BELOT
Pavel Háse
Les Fernandez
Kwai Fan
Jose A.G.Lartitegui
Adam Antonczyk
Rudolf Posch
Thomas Mayer
Raymond Banks
Giancarlo Delli Colli
John Boyd
Jaap Siebenga
Ciro Vignotto
=====
Totaal: 910,00 Euro!

It is most likely there will be a new PC for WBEC soon, the Opteron is fixed it was the powersuply which was broken and is replaced by a new one!
Test tourneys will be played again as soon the new PC arrives!

Thanks to all who made a donation!!

Best wishes,
Leo.

With 500 Euro, you can buy an Intel Q6600 with 4 GB memory, without screen !

Vincent Lejeune wrote:With 500 Euro, you can buy an Intel Q6600 with 4 GB memory, without screen !

I have ordered an Athlon X2 5600 (2,9Ghz) with 4GB memory (PC2-6400, 800MHz ), he will be ready and to deliver around 9 October!
The price is 579 Euro.
Still no idea about the Opteron, can be another 2 weeks before they know what the probem is.

Best wishes,
Leo

Hi Leo.
Please, future whitout home telephone. I use only e-mail. Number telephone 666777888 is fictive, sorry.
Best wishes Pavel Háse

Leo Dijksman wrote:

Vincent Lejeune wrote:With 500 Euro, you can buy an Intel Q6600 with 4 GB memory, without screen !

I have ordered an Athlon X2 5600 (2,9Ghz) with 4GB memory (PC2-6400, 800MHz ), he will be ready and to deliver around 9 October!
The price is 579 Euro.
Still no idea about the Opteron, can be another 2 weeks before they know what the probem is.

Best wishes,
Leo

Hi all,

The above order is canceled by me because they dont delivered the PC within 30 days
So I have to look for another one.

Now I have to make a decision again, any hardware specialist knows which CPUs (Athlon X2 or Intel Duo core) is the best for computerchess and why
Also, is it usefull/interresting to use a Quad core for the top division(s) and let the engines play with ponder=on and (if supported) with 2 threads

Thanks for any tip/advice

Best wishes,
Leo.

Hi Leo,


Multicore (Quad core) is most certainly the future in chess programming. I think is would be wise to pick a quad-core, this way the top division is playing on the best there is.

In addition, it will encourage programmers to jump to the dangerous and bugfull fields of multi-core!


Stephan

Hi Leo,

as Stephan already said I would go for a Quad Core Intel CPU.

Still the cheapest option is in my opinion the intel Q6600. Next interesting one might be the Q9650, but IMO it is compared to the 600 MHz gain simply to expensive. (Nearly * 3 compared to the Q6600)
Computer Chess is very special, if you buy a Quad from the stock you usually have an outstanding graphics card inside them. But for computer chess we don't need them, even a reliable micro board would be sufficent. On the other hand it should be capable of at least 4 GB RAM.
An interesting option might be the ASROCK 4CORE1600-D800. It has VGA onboard, and the intel G31-Chipset. It has as well a PCI-Express slot, so that if you want you can install a dedicated graphics board. But in my opinion the onboard is definitely enough for a little chess. Next big plus for the onboard solution is, that it doesn't get hot and doesn't consume a lot of electricity. The board is capable of 1600 MHz so you might install a faster Quad once in the future. For some Euro more you get the same board with DVI as well, which I would chose. (ASROCK 4CORE1600-DVI)
Of course there are a lot of different mainboards possible but I think the above one is a reasonable solution.
Well, we want Memory: We take 2 x 2GB even when 4 x 1GB would be possible. Why ? Well, we need a single sided (or better with one single lane) memory modul if we fill all 4 memory banks. Therefor better we take 2GB modules and then mustn't care about it. Of course we take 800 MHz Memory. I have good experience with for example TEAM memory and of course also with Kingston, but usualy I take the cheaper one, doesn't matter much usually they have 7 year or even lifetime warranty.
Let's go one, we need a harddrive. Imo 500 GB should be enough, but of course it wouldn't cost too much to take a bigger one. I like Samsung drives because I hadn't so far much upsets with them and usually they don't get as hot as for example WD drives.
Also I always chose a DVD-burner and not a DVD-ROM. That is about 20 Euro more, but it happens so often that you need a burner for whatever reason. Company doesn't matter, Sony, LG & Samsung all produce reasonable drives.
So now about the case. Well, there is the Opteron case left, we could take that one. Anyway, usually I take a new one, they are not that expensive when we do not want too much. When possible it shouldn't be black or only black because they look so soon so ugly. How about for example a LC-190 in silver from MS-Tech. It has two USB slots in it's front which is extremely useful to put an USB stick in them e.g. to transfer files.
We should take a bit more care about the power unit. I doubt that Leo wants something extremely silent, all the PCs he have make anyway too much noise to be in his bed room. In my opinion the ENERMAX Pro82+ EPR385AWT V2.x is a good solution for a computer chess PC. 385W is more then enough anyway.
IMO you don't need an OS, you can take the one from your old opteron. Else it would be enough to take the Vista Basic 64bit, no need for professional or premium or even ultimate. We want to play computerchess and maybe edit some textfiles and do some internetty... that's it.

Okay, when I would sell this to one of my customers the price would be 489,- € without OS. With OS it's 569,- €. Of course there are some possibilities to get an even lower price, e.g. taking a cheaper power unit. (E.g. Case & PU combinations, there are about 45,- € to save) But this doesn't make sense in my opinion because the computer must run 24 hourse / 7 days a week and therefor I would choose something reasonable like an Enermax power unit. (Of course all prices in germany, but I doubt that this differs too much compared to the netherlands, vat isn't too much different, is it ?)

Of course with more money one could produce better systems, but I think the above one would be okay for it's job. And of course I don't want to sell you a computer, I don't deliver, but you may get an idea about the price. Also you may take the list of items and compare to offers you get.

Hope this helps a bit.

Greets, Thomas

I just want to add, that when you want a Dual Core I would chose the Intel E8400 with 2x3,0 GHz. Price is nearly the same then Q6600. Everything else said in my posting stays the same IMO.

Why Intel ? Well, clockwise the hole Core 2 Duo family is slightly faster then any Athlon 64. Of course it's also faster then any Phenom, they are not very good for chess at all. The killer argument for me currently is, that there are good chances that in two years or so I still get a faster Intel Penryn Processor for the 775 socket for low prices whereas it is unlikely that we will see a lot of improvement (for chess) on the AMD platform. Don't get me wrong, Phenom isn't as bad as media makes them, but for chess they are not the right way to go so if they even reach 3,0 GHz soon I still would chose an intel processor for chess.

Greets, Thomas

Leo Dijksman wrote:

Leo Dijksman wrote:

Vincent Lejeune wrote:With 500 Euro, you can buy an Intel Q6600 with 4 GB memory, without screen !

I have ordered an Athlon X2 5600 (2,9Ghz) with 4GB memory (PC2-6400, 800MHz ), he will be ready and to deliver around 9 October!
The price is 579 Euro.
Still no idea about the Opteron, can be another 2 weeks before they know what the probem is.

Best wishes,
Leo

Hi all,

The above order is canceled by me because they dont delivered the PC within 30 days
So I have to look for another one.

Now I have to make a decision again, any hardware specialist knows which CPUs (Athlon X2 or Intel Duo core) is the best for computerchess and why
Also, is it usefull/interresting to use a Quad core for the top division(s) and let the engines play with ponder=on and (if supported) with 2 threads

Thanks for any tip/advice

Best wishes,
Leo.

My two cts :

INTEL Q6600 (cheap an good)
Graphic card on mainboard (cheap and less fan needed)
4 Gb RAM
GOOD Power unit
GOOD Fan system and box

Anyways, matches with ponder on and two threads is too much I guess. System will be stoling CPU here and there as you'll have the 4 cores busy. For my testing purposes, is not so important of course, and I usually run two tourneys at once with ponder on, but be ready for the stream of hot air you'll get :-)

Thanks for the info Thomas,

It is usefull as usual

Best wishes,
Leo.

Thomas Mayer wrote:Hi Leo,

as Stephan already said I would go for a Quad Core Intel CPU.

Still the cheapest option is in my opinion the intel Q6600. Next interesting one might be the Q9650, but IMO it is compared to the 600 MHz gain simply to expensive. (Nearly * 3 compared to the Q6600)
Computer Chess is very special, if you buy a Quad from the stock you usually have an outstanding graphics card inside them. But for computer chess we don't need them, even a reliable micro board would be sufficent. On the other hand it should be capable of at least 4 GB RAM.
An interesting option might be the ASROCK 4CORE1600-D800. It has VGA onboard, and the intel G31-Chipset. It has as well a PCI-Express slot, so that if you want you can install a dedicated graphics board. But in my opinion the onboard is definitely enough for a little chess. Next big plus for the onboard solution is, that it doesn't get hot and doesn't consume a lot of electricity. The board is capable of 1600 MHz so you might install a faster Quad once in the future. For some Euro more you get the same board with DVI as well, which I would chose. (ASROCK 4CORE1600-DVI)
Of course there are a lot of different mainboards possible but I think the above one is a reasonable solution.
Well, we want Memory: We take 2 x 2GB even when 4 x 1GB would be possible. Why ? Well, we need a single sided (or better with one single lane) memory modul if we fill all 4 memory banks. Therefor better we take 2GB modules and then mustn't care about it. Of course we take 800 MHz Memory. I have good experience with for example TEAM memory and of course also with Kingston, but usualy I take the cheaper one, doesn't matter much usually they have 7 year or even lifetime warranty.
Let's go one, we need a harddrive. Imo 500 GB should be enough, but of course it wouldn't cost too much to take a bigger one. I like Samsung drives because I hadn't so far much upsets with them and usually they don't get as hot as for example WD drives.
Also I always chose a DVD-burner and not a DVD-ROM. That is about 20 Euro more, but it happens so often that you need a burner for whatever reason. Company doesn't matter, Sony, LG & Samsung all produce reasonable drives.
So now about the case. Well, there is the Opteron case left, we could take that one. Anyway, usually I take a new one, they are not that expensive when we do not want too much. When possible it shouldn't be black or only black because they look so soon so ugly. How about for example a LC-190 in silver from MS-Tech. It has two USB slots in it's front which is extremely useful to put an USB stick in them e.g. to transfer files.
We should take a bit more care about the power unit. I doubt that Leo wants something extremely silent, all the PCs he have make anyway too much noise to be in his bed room. In my opinion the ENERMAX Pro82+ EPR385AWT V2.x is a good solution for a computer chess PC. 385W is more then enough anyway.
IMO you don't need an OS, you can take the one from your old opteron. Else it would be enough to take the Vista Basic 64bit, no need for professional or premium or even ultimate. We want to play computerchess and maybe edit some textfiles and do some internetty... that's it.

Okay, when I would sell this to one of my customers the price would be 489,- € without OS. With OS it's 569,- €. Of course there are some possibilities to get an even lower price, e.g. taking a cheaper power unit. (E.g. Case & PU combinations, there are about 45,- € to save) But this doesn't make sense in my opinion because the computer must run 24 hourse / 7 days a week and therefor I would choose something reasonable like an Enermax power unit. (Of course all prices in germany, but I doubt that this differs too much compared to the netherlands, vat isn't too much different, is it ?)

Of course with more money one could produce better systems, but I think the above one would be okay for it's job. And of course I don't want to sell you a computer, I don't deliver, but you may get an idea about the price. Also you may take the list of items and compare to offers you get.

Hope this helps a bit.

Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,

The "Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9550 (Boxed, FC-LGA4, "Yorkfield")" is "4x 2833 MHz, cache 2x 6144 kB and Quadpomped 1333 MHz " and cost 299 euro. I think when you said above "Next interesting one might be the Q9650, but IMO it is compared to the 600 MHz gain simply to expensive. (Nearly * 3 compared to the Q6600)" you meen the "Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme QX9650 (Boxed, FC-LGA4, "Yorkfield")" which is 4 x 3000 MHz and cost 899 euro?

If so, is it not better to take the Q9550 above the Q6600? (price is here 299 vs 179 euro)

Thanks,
Leo.

Any comments at this (dutch): ?

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic 64 bit
CPU: Intel® Core 2 Quad Q9550
NEC Floppydrive
PowerSuply: Enermax PRO82+ 525W
Case: Antec Three Hundred
2 jaar on-site garantie
Cardreader MS-TECH Card Reader silver 5,25
Motherboard: ASRock 4Core1600-D800
Harddisk 1 (SATA) Seagate ST3250410AS
Harddisk 2 (SATA) Seagate ST3250410AS
Memory Buffalo 4 GB DDR2-800 Kit
DVD-ROM Asus DVD-E818A6
Price is 828 euro.

Best wishes,
Leo.

This will show you about chess performance:
http://www.jens.tauchclub-krems.at/diverses/schach/fritz9_benchmarks.html

I get 16.4 Fritzmark with Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU X9650 @ 3.00GHz.

My computer always has tasks running in the background.

Hi Leo,

The "Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9550 (Boxed, FC-LGA4, "Yorkfield")" is "4x 2833 MHz, cache 2x 6144 kB and Quadpomped 1333 MHz " and cost 299 euro. I think when you said above "Next interesting one might be the Q9650, but IMO it is compared to the 600 MHz gain simply to expensive. (Nearly * 3 compared to the Q6600)" you meen the "Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme QX9650 (Boxed, FC-LGA4, "Yorkfield")" which is 4 x 3000 MHz and cost 899 euro?

Nope, I meant the Q9650 which is at least in the pricelists of my distributors. NEVER buy a QX, EX oder whatever, they are extremely expensive and usually have very high termal design power, e.g. the QX9650 125W whereas the Q9650 has 95W. So QX etc. get quite hot. Q9650 should be around 500 Euro.

If so, is it not better to take the Q9550 above the Q6600? (price is here 299 vs 179 euro)

well, as I said, with more money you get more. But is it useful ? That's 433 MHz between Q9550 & Q6600 which is about 18%. The price difference is 67 %. Of course that is something you must decide yourself. I would go for the Q6600 and hope that in about two years I can get a 4x3 GHz or faster for those 120 Euro.

So let's look on your system:

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic 64 bit
CPU: Intel® Core 2 Quad Q9550
NEC Floppydrive
PowerSuply: Enermax PRO82+ 525W
Case: Antec Three Hundred
2 jaar on-site garantie
Cardreader MS-TECH Card Reader silver 5,25
Motherboard: ASRock 4Core1600-D800
Harddisk 1 (SATA) Seagate ST3250410AS
Harddisk 2 (SATA) Seagate ST3250410AS
Memory Buffalo 4 GB DDR2-800 Kit
DVD-ROM Asus DVD-E818A6
Price is 828 euro.

In my opinion it is a bit too expensive, whereas the pieces look good. But I would chose just ONE 500 GB Harddrive instead of two 250 GB. The Antec Three Hundred is a nice case, but you can use cheaper ones. The Cardreader is a 2 Euro thingy... And the Floppy is not needed. Also the power unit is stronger then needed, your system will NEVER need 525W as long you don't install a VERY expensive graphics card.

Here is an offer from a german dealer:
https://www.csl-computer.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1623&cPath=5_81&XTCsid=qpalfa1m4c8herk6q3ato3us7b9omhki

Of course that's without OS, he wants another 96 Euro for the OS and I doubt that he will install a dutch version. BUT compare the prices, there MUST be something compareable in the netherlands. It is right that we don't know much about the power unit in that offer - but who cares, you can buy any reasonable power unit for about 50-60 € and exchange the shipped one. Still the offer is way cheaper and you have an extra pu for the case that should not happen. (Dead PU...

Don't you know anyone around who can build such a PC for you ? Just buying the parts should be even a bit cheaper.
Greets, Thomas

[quote="Thomas Mayer"]Hi Leo,

In my opinion it is a bit too expensive, whereas the pieces look good. But I would chose just ONE 500 GB Harddrive instead of two 250 GB. The Antec Three Hundred is a nice case, but you can use cheaper ones. The Cardreader is a 2 Euro thingy... And the Floppy is not needed. Also the power unit is stronger then needed, your system will NEVER need 525W as long you don't install a VERY expensive graphics card.

Here is an offer from a german dealer:
https://www.csl-computer.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1623&cPath=5_81&XTCsid=qpalfa1m4c8herk6q3ato3us7b9omhki

Of course that's without OS, he wants another 96 Euro for the OS and I doubt that he will install a dutch version. BUT compare the prices, there MUST be something compareable in the netherlands. It is right that we don't know much about the power unit in that offer - but who cares, you can buy any reasonable power unit for about 50-60 € and exchange the shipped one. Still the offer is way cheaper and you have an extra pu for the case that should not happen. (Dead PU...

Don't you know anyone around who can build such a PC for you ? Just buying the parts should be even a bit cheaper.
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Thanks again, the shop you linked to seems cheaper as most here in NL, at least I could not find them.

I was looking at this one:
https://www.csl-computer.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1630&cPath=11_88&XTCsid=qpalfa1m4c8herk6q3ato3us7b9omhki

Still Q9550 but pretty cheap when I use the HD's and DC drive from my older PC's.

And no, I know nobody here who can build a PC. Probably I can do it myself but I dont dear to try

I asked the shop for info abot deliver to NL and Windows 64bit.

Best wishes,
Leo.